False. There are repetitive references during "Serial" to … (2/17/00-158) Jay gave yet a third statement on April 1 3, 1 999, and admitted that he lied on the two previous occasions to cover up the fact that he bought and sold marijuana. ... soon after the murder. I'm not buying Jay's knowledge of the car's location being such a smoking gun. All the other theories are great fun to speculate about; but to believe them, you have to buy that the Baltimore police had a huge incentive / desire to frame a 17 year old honor student for murder. We know Adnan smoked a lot of pot. First, the facts: When a person dies, the heart … (2/1 7/00-225), https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zERAsrjje-sU.kQFffQE6h2vk, I-70 Park and Ride: "Where Jay said he and Adnan ditched Hae's Car for a few hours on Jan. 13 after the murder". Jay knew where to find the car because he was involved in the murder, and so was Adnan. Because you know the police knew, right? The cell phone evidence. Jay: I told them the truth, I did not show them a location that was true, no. When the first season of the wildly popular podcast "Serial" debuted in 2014, millions of listeners learned about the 1999 murder of high school senior Hae Min Lee. But did he actually? Within a few hours, they'll have a warrant for Adnan's arrest.". Press J to jump to the feed. It is also important to Jay's narrative as to where Jen Pusateri picked him up at the strip on Edmondson Avenue, which he indicated was "four blocks" from the location of Hae's car. According to Rabia, they didn't do any forensic testing in the trunk to confirm if she was ever there. Then the detective gets up on stand and says, no, that's wrong, he took us to the right location right away. Was Jay covering for something else that he did? Jay tells you yeah, and then he called some girl in Silver Spring and he asked me to say hi to her. He admitted these facts, and not in circumstances that would lead one to believe it was a false confession. On February 26, 1999, he went to Jennifer Pusiteri's house and asked her to come to the police station to talk. (2/17/00-153) Based upon information contained in Hae's missing person report, he obtained Adnan's cell phone records. We don't don't have the choice of not accepting that he knew where the car was. Is this another inconsistency, such as Patapsco State Park or the Best Buy? Wasn't Hae last seen alive with her car? (2/10/00-83) During this questioning, Jay told police that Adnan said on January 12 that "he was going to kill that bitch, " and then later said it was four days before January 12. But now I remember that as I was listening to that podcast, when I heard that the car was found "on a grassy hill behind some row houses off Edmondson Avenue." It is plausible that the police knew where the car was and took Jay for a drive to that area, letting him say, "there it is!" If we accept that Jay, for whatever reason, knew where Hae's car was, it seems there are only two conclusions: Jay's knowledge was unrelated to the murder. Jay’s side of the story changed each time he was interviewed. Serial could just as easily be called “The Case of the Missing Car”. Gutierrez: You told them something that was not the truth. He also said that Jay told him that Adnan showed him Hae's body in the trunk on Franklintown Road, contrary to Jay' testimony that it happened at the Best Buy. — Prosecution could put Adnan in Hae’s car based on evidence of a schoolmate, who on the morning of January 13th, heard Adnan tell her that his car was in the shop and that he needed a ride from Hae Min (Adnan’s car was not in the shop). The “I’m going to kill” note was found in Adnan’s house, following a … With respect, I feel this thread is redundant. Jay Wilds told you about the exact same call as they’re driving from I-70 parking lot where they left Hae’s car. Jay said he asked the police to turn off the recorder, which they did, and he asked for an attorney. On March 15, 1999, Jay gave a second statement to the police. Could he be a more important player than we have hitherto known? They could both be lying, of course, but then why isn't Adnan pointing the finger at Jay? Where Hae’s car was. Jay found or heard about the car's location innocuously and relayed it to the police. Jay's knowledge was related to the murder. I think what's happening here, is that he's saying that no, maybe he didn't actually show the police where the car was exactly, but he still didn't kill Hae and he's sure Adnan did. On April 13, 1999, Jay gave a third statement to police. So, let me know what you think about this. The fact that Jay knows where the car is splits the universe into three options: (1) third party culprit [improbable], (2) Adnan is guilty [possible], (3) Jay + __ are guilty [possible]. I know the theories are already being discussed. However, I do think it's worth asking whether or not the fact Jay led the cops to the car was ever true to begin with. I was expecting them to say the car was found deep in the woods, or driven into a lake. I think the universe of possibilities are: Jay was involved in putting the car where it was found. In Sky Crime’s The Case Against Adnan Syed, Rabia Chaudry challenged Jay’s description of seeing Hae’s body in the car boot, as it wouldn’t have been consistent with … If he was not involved, why would Jay implicate himself in the crime? Medical evidence is inconsistent with Hae’s burial. Then he changed his story to Adnan presenting Hae’s body at the Best Buy parking lot after Adnan called him from a payphone in the parking lot. The quote is as follows (from Episode 5). I think you're getting confused. (Or some scenario along those lines. That's exactly what I'm getting at. What I found was highly suspicious to me: [map of edmonson ave and I-90 park and ride] (http://imgur.com/TFTm4H4). The podcast asked whether her ex-boyfriend Adnan Syed, who was convicted of her murder, may actually be innocent, which led to several key people involved in the case being re-examined. I'm genuinely wondering if there's another way to explain it.). Jay told the police different stories about where Jennifer picked him up on January 13. Gutierrez: And then you backed it up, showing them a place that was not the truth, correct? I was just trying to show that the fact of the car is really a crystallizing moment. He also stated that Adnan drove Hae's car from the I-70 Park and Ride to a nearby McDonald's, where Jay was waiting in Adnan's car. Again, with respect, this makes me think you haven't listened very carefully to the story. He said the police confronted him with things Jennifer Pusiteri had told them earlier when she was questioned by police. Perhaps...but this is basically the ONLY thing that really needed to be consistent. (Sorry for not being clearer.). Every other question I've had thus far, I could come up with an interpretation that would allow for Adnan's innocence. It’s in the summary of the interview conducted with Jen Pusitari the day before Jay “showed” them where it was. (2/4/00-221) The first time Jay spoke to the police, he said he was not involved in killing or burying Hae. Is it specifically about the car location? The inconsistency the lawyer is referring to is that Jay later changes the location of the trunk pop from Edmonton avenue to best buy. But the only other way Jay could know what the person driving Hae’s car was “figuring” to do is if Jay was, in fact, the one driving Hae’s car, trying to figure out what to do. That’s huge. And, later, when the cops drive out with Jay to get Hae's car, Jay shows them the spot on Edmondson Avenue. (2/18/00-166) On cross-examination, MacGillivary testified that Mr. S was considered to be a suspect. It's just a few blocks from where they ditched Hae's car, he said. Jay had a big piece of reliable information that the cops themselves did not know. However, he explicitly says "I did not show them a location that was true." (2/10/00-14) On that date, the police questioned him for two hours, and then turned a tape recorder on and questioned him for two more hours. (Like, he happened to discover it while walking one night.). There are some inconsistencies with the car too that have been raising flags for me for awhile. If we continue following Jay’s original timeline, this is where he and Jay smoked weed after abandoning Hae’s car. Press J to jump to the feed. And then in Jay’s second interview, he does the same thing all over again. Am I missing a possibility? At the first trial, Jay says they both got high in Adnan's car, but the second trial, he says only he smoked and Adnan didn't want to. Adnan gets in Hae’s car and tells Jay to wait for him at McDonald’s. My understanding was that Edmonton avenue was initially where he took them to show them where Adnan popped the trunk. We know: At trial, Jay says they both buried Hae. Thank you for bringing this up. Jay said that he told Jennifer what happened on January 13. He told The Intercept that Adnan first showed him Hae's body in the trunk of his car outside Jay's grandma's house, not in the Best Buy parking lot—a revelation that … We know Jay knew where the car was, because Jay was the first person to show it to the police. The police knew where the car was and contaminated Jay. Jay testifies that he both helped dig the hole in Leakin Park and helped bury the body. Until 11 p.m., we don't have any more time references, we only know the order of events. Nisha told you they were together. From what we've heard about the police and their investigation, nothing would surprise me. my instant reaction was "Wow, the police were looking for Hae's car for six weeks and no nobody could find it in such a visible location, right behind houses"? ", This discrepancy was very annoying to me, so I finally summoned the courage to google map it. If Jay knew where the car was, that means he must have known who the killer was. to Jay' testimony, MacGillivary said at no time did Jay request a lawyer, because if he had, all questioning would have ceased. Jay Wilds and Adnan Syed were reportedly not close friends — but the Woodlawn High School seniors’ fates would eventually become inextricably linked through a brutal Jan. 1999 murder case, when Syed was arrested and ultimately convicted of killing his ex-girlfriend, Hae Min Lee. I still believe Jay was involved though. In Jay's testimony he says he led them to the wrong car location (not told them the wrong car location) TOOK THEM TO THE WRONG CAR LOCATION. Edmondson Avenue is a very long street, but at no point does it connect to the I-70 park and ride. What is the context of this interchange? Gutierrez: And then you backed… let me finish. But this has me stumped. That's definitely what he says. At it's closest point, it is still nearly a 2 mile drive from the I-70 Park and Ride. It's the ONLY fact that's giving their case any credence. I'm getting a sinking feeling that the police really manipulated a majority of the testimonies/evidence in this case. Couldn't she have waited til tomorrow? If you are planning a murder you do not try to interact with outsiders unless you have to. To me, this is important, as it could indicate proximity to the residence other accessory/ies to the crime/and or disposal of the body (e.g., Phil or Patrick, who were both called that afternoon from Adnan's cell, likely while in Jay's possession if you read through this examination and timeline of the cell tower data). Given that we know that Jay at least helped dispose of the body, I'm having a hard time coming up with a plausible scenario that puts Jay in the same place as Hae, without Adnan being involved. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. And, I know Jay knew where the car was. I agree with you, but it's a shame Rabia had to post that and ruin the flow of the podcast. It's not a huge leap to guess he might have dealt a few dime bags himself. Each season explores a nonfictional story in weekly installments. Here are two quotes from Episode 4: "Once they're finished at headquarters, they all drive out in the middle of the night to where the car is parked, on a grassy hill behind some row houses off Edmondson Avenue. (2/1 7/00-3 14), Contrary. (2/10/00-76) He also told police he walked to the mall on January 13. Jay Wilds and Nisha don’t know each other. The big kicker for this for me is this direct quote from the trial, in which Gutierrez is questioning Jay's untruthfulness. Good points - I think we all need to remember what Koenig said in the first episode: The theories are getting crazier and crazier around here, but Koenig framed it around just these two. Could Hae have been involved in some way? Unless I'm missing something, this is the rare case where something about Jay's story links up with objectively verifiable evidence, and for that reason, it seems very important. That’s what also tied Adnan to the crime, very loosely, in my opinion. Also, why these phone calls to Yasir Ali on the day of the crime? We know Jay was a small-time drug dealer. From the appellate brief, I replaced all last names with first names and appellate with Adnan and I bolded the pieces that I'm like WTF? That there was another witness, besides Jay, who saw Hae’s body, who saw Adnan with Hae’s body. Police/podcast at this point say it was after the 1st interview. Everyone keeps saying that Jay knowing where Hae's car was parked is the only "real" evidence in this case. But neither of them killed her. (2/4/00-229) He said he lied to the police about the location of Hae's car. (2/14/00- 115) Jay eventually took the police to where the body was buried and to where Hae's car was located. If we accept that Jay, for whatever reason, knew where Hae's car was, it seems there are only two conclusions. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the serialpodcast community. (2/10/00- 187). Jay was questioned three times by the police, the first time was on February 28, 1999. Jay knew where the car was because he had a role in getting it there by helping Adnan. (2/18/00-128-129) MacGillivary denied that Jay first took him to the wrong location before showing police where the car was. "Once they're finished at headquarters, they all drive out in the middle of the night to where the car is parked, on a grassy hill behind some row houses off Edmondson Avenue. Adnan meets Jay … Your options #2 and #3 are the essential questions of the entire story, and already being talked about extensively in the subreddit. The argument against a third party or serial killer in the murder of Hae Min Lee was that Jay knew where the car was. Jay Wilds, the main witness in a case that put then-18-year-old Adnan Syed into jail for the murder of his ex girlfriend Hae Min Lee in 1999, has done an interview with The Intercept and changed his story. Once confronted with the cell phone records, Jay "remembered things a lot better." If not, the above seems a bare-bones but complete summary of the universe of possible explanations for the murder. Even though there wasn't any physical evidence linking Adnan to the murder itself, police ran on … I didn't think about it much after that, but now you're making me wonder. (2/10/00-49). Adnan did have Hae's body in the trunk of the car and Jay did help him bury her in Leakin Park. (2/1 8/00- 151) MacGillivary interviewed Jay a second time on March 15, 1 999, with Adnan's cell phone records, and noticed that Jay' statement did not match up to the records. Each season explores a nonfictional story in weekly installments. Then they stashed the car at the park and ride for the afternoon. Everyone keeps saying that Jay knowing where Hae's car was parked is the only "real" evidence in this case. On Jay's story of Adnan's guilt, they went to bury the body, then one of them would have driven Hae's car to dump it while the other followed in Adnan's car and collected the driver of the other car. Is there any evidence supporting Option #1? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the serialpodcast community. Hae's body was found on February 9th. According to Jay's story, Hae's body was put in the boot of the car. On February 9, 1999, he responded as the primary detective to Leakin Park, where Hae's body was recovered. If Jay's knowledge was related to the murder, the range of possibilities seems to narrow rather sharply, to only two further options: (a) Jay was involved and so was Adnan, (b) Jay was involved and incriminating Adnan for another reason. It was reported on local news that the location of the car was known but kept from the public, a common cop tactic. Does anyone know the actual, precise location of where Hae's car was found? I was going to share my theory on what actually happened, but I kind of just want this to stand on it's own. What we do know about Wilds and Syed, which Syed’s testimony confirms, is that Wilds and Syed were together on the day of Lee’s murder, and Jay had Syed’s phone and car … So much of the prosecution's case appears to be a fabrication, I have to feel like this could be as well. The reliability of the cellphone evidence was first called into question in … We know Jay knew where the car was, because Jay was the first person to show it to the police. Yep, so far in the lying contest, Jay has lapped Adnan and is on the home straight as far as I am concerned. SK goes on to dismiss that Jay says this. She said that she heard that Hae had been strangled, although that information had not yet been publicly released. She says that it's oxymoronic, but essentially believes Jay is being tripped up by Gutierrez admittedly confusing questioning to ultimately say that he's telling the truth about the murder, even though some of the details he's lied about in the past. Serial is a podcast by the creators of This American Life. Yeah. (2/17/00-156) Jennifer came to the station that night and gave a statement. He said his only contact with Adnan on January 13 was at 2:00 p.m. when Adnan called him and asked for directions to a shop in East Baltimore. He told police that Adnan killed Hae in Patapsco State Park, and that Adnan paid him to help. Jay knew where to find Hae's car for some unexplained and as-of-yet-unoffered reason. Jay said that he remembered seeing … I would have liked to hear SK's presentation of this. Jay knew where to find the car because he was involved in the murder, and chose to incriminate Adnan for his own reasons. Detective MacGillivary testified as follows. While listening to "Serial," it's important to keep in mind that we don't know … I'm trying to get at, if we don't accept Jay's story, how else does he come by that information. Jay also told police where Hae's car was left. Jay led them to it on April 13th. They they later collected it and took it to the grassy hill where it remained for 6 weeks until Jay took the police to it. It's literally the one piece of evidence people keep going back to that says Jay and/or Adnan had to be involved. Jay knew details that only someone who was at the scene of the crime could have known; in court, he stated that Adnan had shown him Hae’s body in the boot of his car… So everyone in the area knows this girl has been murdered, many will have learned what car she drives and possibly even the registration if publicised, there's a massive police search for it. I've seen several vague descriptions and several maps that lack enough detail to indicate clearly the precise location where Hae's car was recovered from. You are right in saying that Jay's leading police to the car has convinced us of his involvement. He dumped the car there with Adnan after they buried her, no? Plus, Trainum said, Jay’s story completes a circle for the cops. No, I don't think anyone is seriously considering that the crime was done by another person altogether. The police asked him why he needed one, and turned on the recorder to continue the questioning. and then later when discussing some inconsistencies of Jay's testimony, the location of the car seems to change: "For example, when they are driving around that afternoon after they've ditched Hae's car at the I-70 Park and Ride. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, this examination and timeline of the cell tower data. Adnan is a psychopath. The “I’m Going to Kill” Note. (2/10-66) He told the police that he saw Hae's body in a truck, not in the trunk of Hae's.Sentra. I highly doubt Jay just happened to find the car without any other knowledge of the murder, and then fabricated a story to frame Adnan. Therefore, could Jay have known where to find that later-missing car without also knowing something about the murder? But nor was there good reason to disbelieve Jay. Then they buried Hae, and left the car "on a grassy hill behind some row houses.". The story was that the car was at the Park-and-ride with Hae's body in it while Adnan was at track practice. It is abundantly clear that Jay knew where the car was because he was involved in the burial of the body and the abandonment of the car. That said, the fact that he knew where the car and body were pretty much leaves three possibilities: (1) Adnan did it more or less like Jay said, with Jay as accessory after, (2) Adnan had more help from Jay than Jay is admitting, and Jay is lying to protect himself (3) Jay did it alone (or with someone else) and is framing Adnan. After all, Jay did know where Hae's car was, and while Adnan didn't have much reason to kill Hae, Jay had even less reason to kill her. Let's say the police were trying to frame Adnan for the crime (I know it's not likely, but for the sake of argument), they may have caught Jay for some other crime and told him where the car was as well as what to say about what happened on that day in order to avoid going to jail. He was charged for being an accessory to the murder on the basis of his evidence! Hae’s car could have been in the parking lot, but I didn’t know what it looked like so I don’t remember. Appellate brief says Jay took police to the car after his third interview. But did he actually? (I'm not asking rhetorically. Serial is a podcast by the creators of This American Life. Jay acknowledged that he lied to the police. Could Jennifer have a motive or in any way be Jay's +1? If we accept that Jay, for whatever reason, knew where Hae's car was, it seems there are only two conclusions We don't don't have the choice of not accepting that he knew where the car was. He did not show them a location that was true. First, he stated that Adnan showed him Hae’s body in the trunk of her car at the “strip” off Edmondson Avenue. "If we accept" was a turn of phrase, not an invitation to speculate. Then why is n't Adnan pointing the finger at Jay two conclusions, how else does he by! February 26, 1999 needed one, and turned on the basis of his!! Jay also told police he walked to the wrong location before showing police where Hae 's body in a,. 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